avecsabombe a réagi à votre billet “avecsabombe a réagi à votre billet “The actions of the guys who defied…”
Yeah I’m with Adnan here saying they’re of good class standing is a broad generalization and they do face police violence. our specific leadership activism tho is very much bougie, integrationist and focused on class mobility; working class erased
Yeah, I was generalizing. sorry about that. I guess I conflated visible American Muslims with American Muslims as a whole, the leadership activism is really one of the only images I have of American Muslims (like you said it’s a very integrationist one). American Muslims are much more diverse than French Muslims though, that’s why there seems to be more class/social mobility while French Muslims are immigrants/of immigrant background from countries formerly colonized by France so you have that particular dynamic here. Our situation resembles the one of SA Muslims in UK somehow.
I don’t agree with the use of “brown tumblr” as a category of analysis here, because American Muslims are definitely part of the whole surveillance /security state apparatus, though i think it ranged how much the communities are affected within
Yeah, I just realized that I might over-generalize. :/ Especially because I don’t want to lump Arabs and South Asians together as if there were no difference (especially speaking about Arabs/SA dynamics). I think you were among the ones speaking about how Islam as practiced by South Asians is constantly downplayed due to racism (and Iman too!) Which community is the most affected by the surveillance/security btw?lehaaz a réagi à votre billet :avecsabombe a réagi à votre billet “The actions of…the *brown muslim* community. Though i agree with your comment about social/class mobility. We as a community also lack political power, not sure how the situation is in France, but there is no bases really to grow from.
No political power in France due to being economically marginalized ofc but also, there is this kind of intellectual terrorism in France where even trying to mobilize politically against Islamophobia is deemed as “communautarist” so totally contrary to “French values” like universalism and secularism. It serves as a way to shut political mobilization down because Muslims (from mostly immigrant backgrounds) politically mobilizing would be a threat to their establishment (thus why they banned pro-Palestine protests in Paris).
There seems to be so many interfaith initiatives in America though. That’s why I don’t understand that there is a lack of political bases for Muslims. The energy seems to be put where it shouldn’t be… :/
avecsabombe a réagi à votre billet “The actions of the guys who defied the ban and turned into violence aren’t justifiable and hurt the Palestinian cause. I have no idea why you are trying to justify it. YES France is wrong for banning it, but since they did ppl should be respecting the law. This is also the teachings of Islam. This is what the French government want in order to present Muslims as violent and these pictures are NOT helping whatsoever. Sad wallah”
why do American Muslims try to comment on France
Yeah, I’m pretty sure the anon is a brown American Muslim. Not to be mean or something, but most brown Muslims who live in America have social and class mobility (I don’t want to generalize on that ofc) and don’t face police violence. So their political situation is totally different for one. That’s why there tend to be more apologia for American policies from American Muslims leaders imo. :/ Like that White house iftar thing. When we have leaders like that in France, they receive so much backlash. That’s like this French imam Hassan Chalghoumi who had participated to the dinner of the CRIF then recently organized a trip to Israel for 50 Muslims, there’s hardly more marginalized from the Muslim community than him now. This kind of thing is a death for your credibility in Muslim circles in France.
American Muslims seem to be constantly concerned by the image they give as Muslims so there’s so much pandering. We’re driven by other concerns here. From what I’ve seen, the only American Muslim demographics who have great politics as a whole are Black Muslims, especially African Americans. But that’s it. Brown muslims who have good politics have them individually, not thanks to their leaders if you see what I mean. :/
When some Zionists admit their war crimes against the Palestinians, the expulsion, the massacres, the destruction of Palestinian cities and towns, the theft of land and property, they claim that they had little choice, as they were persecuted in Europe and needed a refuge, even if at the expense of the Palestinians. When Palestinians insist on resisting these Zionist crimes and claims, the same Zionists accuse the Palestinians of lack of sympathy with their oppressors and of anti-Semitism.
Joseph Massad, ”Theses on Zionism”
themindislimitless a réagi à votre billet “The actions of the guys who defied the ban and turned into violence aren’t justifiable and hurt the Palestinian cause. I have no idea why you are trying to justify it. YES France is wrong for banning it, but since they did ppl should be respecting the law. This is also the teachings of Islam. This is what the French government want in order to present Muslims as violent and these pictures are NOT helping whatsoever. Sad wallah”
Islam is about fighting injustice whereever whenever since when did Islam become this liberal ~don’t defy the law keep a good image~ crap smh
!!!!! Exactly. I hate this way to instrumentalize Islam to justify political passivity. I come across this way too often in my taste since those protests began. Those people don’t even have any other solution to offer instead. If you’re bothered so much by actions who defy the law, then give us another mean. But they won’t because it’s just an holier-than-thou attitude. I honestly hate people who dishonestly use Islam like this.
Anonymous said: The actions of the guys who defied the ban and turned into violence aren't justifiable and hurt the Palestinian cause. I have no idea why you are trying to justify it. YES France is wrong for banning it, but since they did ppl should be respecting the law. This is also the teachings of Islam. This is what the French government want in order to present Muslims as violent and these pictures are NOT helping whatsoever. Sad wallah
The “actions of the guys” you are talking about were self-defense. Let me tell your condescending ass what happened: the protest was as peaceful as possible until the police started shooting gas at people, running after protesters (even if they went to hide into buildings), purposefully blocking them so they had no place to go, even prevented people from going into their home… Even non-protesters were hurt.
”People should be respecting the law”, are Maghrebis supposed to be constantly politically marginalized and disenfranchised because the law tells them to? The last time there was such a big political mobilization from Maghrebi youths was in the 80s!!! The freaking 80s!!! It was when the March against Racism and for Equality happened. And here you are, telling me about the “teachings of Islam” about people who are constantly prevented from expressing themselves politically. You should keep your mouth shut. Passivity is not the teaching of Islam either.
You know what else is prosecuted by French authorities? Boycott. BDS campaigns in France have thus to be very carefully planned so that activists don’t find themselves in court. A few days ago, a man who put a sign calling Israel a war criminal on his window found himself in the police station. I repeat, in France, you can find yourself in custody just because you put a pro-Palestine sign on your window. So, what are you going to tell those people? Respect the law or else, you’ll hurt the Palestinian cause? What are they supposed to do? Say and do nothing? I truly think that what hurts the Palestinian cause is your stance of passivity.
I don’t give a damn if you think that makes Muslims look bad because it’s not about Muslims, it’s about politically, socially and economically marginalized Maghrebi youths that are politically mobilizing and are prevented to do so by French post-colonial racism. It’s not about you. So, if you’re not a Maghrebi living in France, I honestly don’t care about how bad it makes you look as a Muslim. If you’re so concerned about that, the first thing you should have done was looking into what happened, looking into police violence against Maghrebi youths, looking into their political, social and economic marginalization,… Then you can have an opinion worthwhile to me. That’d show that you truly care about your fellow Muslims because your message right now is just self-centered crap about your “image”. You should know how Islamophobia works and you should know that Muslims would be pictured as “violent” in any case, resistance is “Muslim violence” for them. That’s what’s “sad”, not youths that defend themselves against the police that constantly dehumanizes them.
Another myth that Zionists like to use is that the Palestinians left their homes voluntarily after the Arab countries called on them to do so. If you’re still somehow not convinced by all the massacres that the Palestinians did not leave voluntarily, here is some more evidence:
You say that the Arab countries called on Palestinians to leave? This is false. There is 0 evidence of this, in fact:
“The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British Museum. There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put.”
-Erskine Childers, British researcher, quoted in: Hadawi, Sami. Bitter harvest: A modern history of Palestine. Interlink Books, 1991.
Why would any country want to receive a refugee population? Do you understand how expensive and difficult that would be for freshly and barely independent countries? Here is some more evidence, this time from the UN’s official investigation into the Dawaymeh Massacre:
“The reason why so little is known about this massacre which, in many respects, was more brutal than the Deir Yassin Massacre, is because the Arab Legion feared that if the news was allowed to spread, it would have the same effect on the morale of the peasantry that Deir Yassin had, namely to cause another flow of Arab refugees.” [Source]
Emphasis my own. So as you can see, the Arab Legion purposely tried to downplay the massacres in order to keep people in their lands. So that there would be no refugees.
How on earth, then, can you turn around and say that the Arab armies encouraged people to leave?
All Zionist arguments are dependent on your ignorance of history. Know your history, and you’ll be able to shut them down instantly.
Des BDs Mickey en français!
Haha. murab Try this, we never know, it might help.
Ah je connais pas du tout. c’est bien?
omg my arabic is shit too, can we have group skype study arabic sessions.
Omg yes, I’d need this. But I can only read it for now. I know next to nothing about Arabic grammar. I have so much work to do. :(
3hunna-cuts a réagi à votre billet :Slt :) t’es française? tu parles tropp bien l’anglais comment t’as appris? Jsuis jalouse!
Qu’est-ce que c’est, une licence de droit, s’il vous plaît?
Law degree. :)